Curse

SilentAssassin · Mar 31, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Salo

Ok seriously...if you win or lose you get faction. The closest win I've ever had and the most fun was a 502-496 win, and we were down 3 people. Did we give up? No! Did we bitch? No! We fought and won, and had a hell of a time. Yet again it goes back to this elite BS attitude. Its a game. And when it stops being fun or you take it this damn seriously..its not a game anymore, its a problem.

I see your point of: this is a game blablabla, everyone here has a life... you'r not the only one

BUT for som1 who loves this faction idea and likes to PvP alot, these leavers are a damn pain in the ass...

and sry to say this, but I really think this "this is a game ... blablabla..." its just plain ignorance

eternal pho · Mar 31, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

ok first of all its just a game and u cannot just report them just b/c they leave.

there could be a possibility that players get disconnected from their internet and its not their fault, so u could be wrong if ur reporting som1.

Lynn Salo · Mar 31, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Ok now I dont know about you but if you get faction taken away or get banned for 5 minutes because your ISP drops you. Thats Stupidity at its finest. Just rename this game Idiot Wars cause all I've seen on this site and in game are a bunch of ideas from a bunch of idiots. Its a game...G-A-M-E. I think the creators...the people who made the game thought about this before they created the "boarders", there is bound to be something they will do to keep it from swaying drastically. And if not...guess what...you'll have to live with it, because they will have gotten your money and no amount of bitching or crying will change that. The same thing happened in Chapter 1, people didnt like stuff anet did(i.e. nerfing farming areas, not a damn thing done about bots, etc.), bitchied and moaned but still played. Same thing will happen here, accept it and play already.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 01, 2006, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

To people determined to grief, there's not a whole lot you can do.

Although most leavers in RA aren't griefers (there's some, but not a lot - e.g. yesterday I fought a group which had a 55 ranger/necro who wasted his teams rez-sigs by killing himself over and over)

Most leavers in RA leave because they simply don't like the team build they get, and feel that they can farm faction faster by dropping out and getting a new team. So the solution is to put a timer on them - after dropping out, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be able to enter a new match for, say, 10 minutes.

In faction battles people mainly drop out because they think their team will lose, and so they wont get faction. As faction battles are longer, the timer should be 30 minutes to an hour.

This doesn't fix deliberate griefing or people going AFK, but it does fix the problem with faction farmers dropping out to get on a new team, without penalizing people with bad connections too severely.

Lynn Salo: How dumb are you? Since when is it not allowed to discuss the rules of a game - just because it's a game? And if you knew anything about ANet and how they've treated us gamers in the past, you'd know that they DO listen to reasonable suggestions.

SilentAssassin · Apr 01, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Lynn Salo: How dumb are you? Since when is it not allowed to discuss the rules of a game - just because it's a game? And if you knew anything about ANet and how they've treated us gamers in the past, you'd know that they DO listen to reasonable suggestions.

/agree

Lynn Salo · Apr 01, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Well if your logic is so great, why not use that same logic somehow to stop the bots? Or stop farming. You know you got a great idea there. Lets say, if you only farm parts of an area for good drops, you cant go back into said area for an hour after you leave it.

OMG! why didnt I think of that...oh yeah...because its f-ing stupid.

and btw It shouldn't be held against people with slow computers or bad connections period.

Hanok Odbrook · Apr 01, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Let's get one thing understood here - this is a game. We all here like to play games. Why do we like to play games? Because playing games gives us some form of enjoyment. If a game is not fun, what do we do? We stop playing.

Leavers in the arenas were a major problem, no matter the cause. Using updates and nerfs in C1 is not a good analogy when talking about Factions. Even with certain things in C1, you could still enjoy the bulk of the game. With Factions, the arenas ARE the game - 80% of the content of this game will be the PvP arenas and mini-games, therefore the leavers are going to be much more of a problem than in C1. Something needs to be done to solve this problem, otherwise Factions will fall flat on its face.

Right now, I see the problem degenerating into both sides having spies constantly sabo the matches. Limiting access to the other side's arenas will help, but then that penalizes the PvEer who would prefer to explore both territories. Having Faction account based limits the PvEers in what they can do at any particular point in the game - not fun. Unfortunately, I would rather deal with this as a PvEer than deal with what the arenas offered in the preview. There are other issues relating to the Faction and what it will allow PvEers to access that really don't apply to this topic, but need fixing nonetheless. Since Anet has decided to make Factions very PvP centric, then the problem of spies, traitors, leavers, etc. need to be handled prior to the release of the game.

And yes, I believe there should be some kind of penalty for leavers. I have used a dial-up for most of my play time in C1 before being able to get broadband, and rarely had a connection issue, so that's no excuse. And as someone else said, if you are having connection issues, then you absolutely should not be teaming up for PvP or PvE action - either way, your constantly dropped connection hurts the other players on the team - go solo until your problem clears up.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Kool Pajamas · Apr 01, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Its simple....time penalty....ban them from arenas for 10 or 15 minutes.

So what if they go afk or make bad build. It affects that one game ONLY. It prevents them from going into multiple battles in a short time span ruining it for hundreds of people.

If you have legit reason for leaving, then the very short time penalty will not affect you in any major way. Just wait out the minor penalty time then join back up.

It's so simple...

Dj Tano · Apr 02, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.

Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission?

I dont think so. I think that you should just leave me as i am, but so that the other people dont get penalized, replace the leaver with a copy of him as a henchmen. Of course it will not be as good as the real player, but its still better then doing a mission without a person, or even worse if the leaver is something important as a healer.

For the factions battle the way to solve the problem is much easyer. You enter a faction battle, and have fun. You leave and you cant join that exact battle again, but only others. This way no people can spy. (btw i think leavers should be replaced by henchmen clones in pvp too)

Wyldchild777 · Apr 02, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

/not signed...

There are other ways to avoid the "SPY / Espionage" problem in alliance battles... not the least of which is if your alliance is Kurzik, then you only can join Kurzik Side for Alliance battles. <snip>

Greetings,

To me, this sounds like the best idea out there so far. However, to complete the line of thought - if your alliance has no standing with either Faction (guild of one?), then it will be based on your character's total faction gained. This won't eliminate all the grief players running the espionage thing, but it will eliminate a majority of them. It will be extremely difficult to maintain that character at 10k faction (since you probably ARE doing battles for the side you are sabotaging FOR) for both sides AND have your guild (of one?) have no faction with either side. To put it in more of a formula:

Faction Check -
if alliance faction = kurzick/luxon, then character faction = kurzick/luxon.
if alliance faction not = kurzick/luxon (points = 0), then greater character faction point total = character faction
if character faction point total is equal, then character = unaligned.

This would more accurately dictate the character's alliance, which then can be checked to allow or deny participation in the PvP portions of Factions that are allianced based.

Just my humble 2cents worth.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

Sunai · Apr 02, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Salo

Well if your logic is so great, why not use that same logic somehow to stop the bots? Or stop farming. You know you got a great idea there. Lets say, if you only farm parts of an area for good drops, you cant go back into said area for an hour after you leave it.

OMG! why didnt I think of that...oh yeah...because its f-ing stupid.

and btw It shouldn't be held against people with slow computers or bad connections period.

Because FARMING is the real plague here!

If you're playing competitively with a group (that depends on you, and that you know become irate when members drop) with a "bad connection", then you know you're taking a risk. You'll have to deal with the consequences if you decide to place the success of the group on your droppy connection.

Personally, though, I still think the remaining players should get rewarded instead. Increased faction gains or something. Something like a 5 minute timeout doesn't seem too bad, though.

SilentAssassin · Apr 02, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Let's get one thing understood here - this is a game. We all here like to play games. Why do we like to play games? Because playing games gives us some form of enjoyment. If a game is not fun, what do we do? We stop playing.

Leavers in the arenas were a major problem, no matter the cause. Using updates and nerfs in C1 is not a good analogy when talking about Factions. Even with certain things in C1, you could still enjoy the bulk of the game. With Factions, the arenas ARE the game - 80% of the content of this game will be the PvP arenas and mini-games, therefore the leavers are going to be much more of a problem than in C1. Something needs to be done to solve this problem, otherwise Factions will fall flat on its face.

Right now, I see the problem degenerating into both sides having spies constantly sabo the matches. Limiting access to the other side's arenas will help, but then that penalizes the PvEer who would prefer to explore both territories. Having Faction account based limits the PvEers in what they can do at any particular point in the game - not fun. Unfortunately, I would rather deal with this as a PvEer than deal with what the arenas offered in the preview. There are other issues relating to the Faction and what it will allow PvEers to access that really don't apply to this topic, but need fixing nonetheless. Since Anet has decided to make Factions very PvP centric, then the problem of spies, traitors, leavers, etc. need to be handled prior to the release of the game.

And yes, I believe there should be some kind of penalty for leavers. I have used a dial-up for most of my play time in C1 before being able to get broadband, and rarely had a connection issue, so that's no excuse. And as someone else said, if you are having connection issues, then you absolutely should not be teaming up for PvP or PvE action - either way, your constantly dropped connection hurts the other players on the team - go solo until your problem clears up.

/agree

Nice post

Numa Pompilius · Apr 02, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Tano

Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.

Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission?

While I agree that when people DO drop out they should be replaced with a random hench, I think that your example shows that a 10 minute timer barring the leaver from entering a new match wont penalize people who leave for legit reasons.

Pandora's box · Apr 02, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Its a game. And we play games to have fun! Penalties don't belong in a game. It should be about rewards. So make rewards for those who complete a match, no matter if it was won or lost.

Make it so players who lost a match still win something, e.g. on their record. Make player records SHOW how many matches were played, how many times they dropped, how many were completed, won or lost, etc. Dont start a random match without giving everyone a short amount of time to take a look at the team and decide if its worth playing with this team. Frequent drop outs will penalize themselves this way!

Give players an objective to keep playing. If a match is necessary to access a new map, give the winners a key to that map. And give the ones who stayed in the losing party a 1/3 key. This way its worth to keep playing! Abuse? If you see someone with only losses on his record you are free to leave within 1 or 2 minutes, remember?

Anyway, PLEASE try a differend point of view! Our society already is too much based on penalizing bad behaviour rather than rewarding the good

MasterDinadan · Apr 02, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

To discourage people from leaving --
Why not allow the losing team to be rewarded a bit of faction (but not nearly as much as the winning team?) It would encourage people to stay in the game even if they know they will lose (at least it won't be a COMPLETE waste of time if they get SOMETHING)

Battlegrounds in World of WarCraft do this (I hate to compare to WoW but...) and people almost never left a battleground without a legitimate reason, because you could get a mark of honor even if you lose (which equates to about 1/6th of what you get for winning, give or take)

Now, this encourages players to join a battle and just go AFK so they reap even a small reward when their team loses (which is likely). In this case, make it so a player that does nothing for a certain period of time is not entitled to receive any faction from the game. So, players have absolutely NO incentive to join a game in AFK because they will earn nothing from it (it doesn't actually stop them from doing it, but why would they want to?)

Ok, that still leaves on reason for people to do it... Spy/Saboteuge whatever. The circumstances of this can be pretty complicated... but perhaps the game can keep track of how much a player "contributes" to the team. In other words, it looks at how often a player with aggressive skills uses the skills (or attacks) while within range of an enemy, or how often a player with support skills uses these skills when nearby allies are engaged in battle. If the contribution detection system sees that the player is rarely using skills or attacking during battles, it will catch him as a turncloak ^.^. If this happens in a series of several games, they are put on a semi-long term ban from playing a battle WITH THAT FACTION (they can still play with the other faction, since if a player is trying to make Luxon lose by playing poorly on Luxon's team, then they should still be able to play on Kurzick's team, where they SHOULD be if they want Luxon to lose).
The contribution requirements to avoid being banned would not be too much... so players that simply aren't very good shouldn't be caught by it... while players who are OBVIOUSLY not trying to help their team or hurt the other team will be.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 02, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

To discourage people from leaving --
Why not allow the losing team to be rewarded a bit of faction (but not nearly as much as the winning team?)

That was in fact exactly the way it worked. When I was on the winning team I got 750 faction, when I was on the losing (badly) team, I got about 130. I was generally about one of three left on the losing team when the other team reached 500 points and the match ended.

The only thing this system does, is encourage people to drop early. I had people start dropping when the team was under by 30 points for 70, ie right at the start of the match.

EDIT: Basically, stick-and-carrot is more effective than just carrot. Or just stick.

Hanok Odbrook · Apr 02, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Tano

Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.

Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission?

At this point, yes you should - you have left the team hanging, just as any other leaver does - it's your own fault you didn't plan enough time to complete the mission. If the code is changed to replace quitters, that is one thing. But at this point, there is no sign of that happening (or if it's even possible without a thorough recode of the game). So the fact that you had other commitments doesn't change the fact that you basically screwed the team over.

Now, if your team was fully aware before the mission began that there was a good chance you couldn't see it all the way through, that's a different story. However, if they were operating under the assumption that you were in it until the end, then you should be penalized just as you penalized the team by leaving them a man short.

In reply to Pandora's, I do believe rewards for sticking it out would be a great benefit, but that still does not solve the problem of those griefers who just don't care and the spies who are only out to sabo the team. And I think we can all agree from personal experience that there are a great many of those types of players out there so there needs to be penalities for their actions.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Kool Pajamas · Apr 02, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Tano

Just look at it this way: couple days ago i started a mission at around 22 and got half way thought it, then i noticed i had other stuff to do and it was late (around 10:30) because i got to go to school. So i told people i had to go, and left.

Now should i be penalized for leaving the mission?

I dont think so. I think that you should just leave me as i am, but so that the other people dont get penalized, replace the leaver with a copy of him as a henchmen. Of course it will not be as good as the real player, but its still better then doing a mission without a person, or even worse if the leaver is something important as a healer.

For the factions battle the way to solve the problem is much easyer. You enter a faction battle, and have fun. You leave and you cant join that exact battle again, but only others. This way no people can spy. (btw i think leavers should be replaced by henchmen clones in pvp too)

If we use a time penalty then you would have been totally unaffected since you didnt come back right away.

Puliver · Apr 27, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

All suggestion you made here are good intended but they will penalty even those who aren't doing bad thing because it's "fun" but because they must do it right now. I got something that will affect only those who are leaving too often. Let's say we have a special title track to become a Leaver. Each time you leave a PvP battle during fight, you gain a point, when you get 10 poinst or so, you gain an account title "Leaver". The special about this title is that after each 2 hours of gameplaying you lost one point from this title track so if you leave because you must and it's not often, you will be not affected by this, but those who are leaving too often can get this title or they will not be allowed to enter a pvp battle until their points are lower than 10. This way leavers will be "punished". This can be combined with reinforcement option.

Taala · Apr 27, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Eh? You posted to one year old thread just to advertise your other thread in Sardelac?